Blue Sky Thinking: FAA General Counsel Marc Nichols Weighs in on Advanced Aerial Mobility
Q&A with Marc Nichols, General Counsel, FAA, and Nick Perloff-Giles, CoMotion.
Welcome to CoMotion NEWS, your weekly roundup of news and analysis of the mobility revolution. If this email was forwarded, you can sign up here for NEWS.
In the latest episode of CoMotion’s Fast Forward Podcast, Nick Perloff-Giles sits down with Marc Nichols, General Counsel of the Federal Aviation Administration, which just announced $291 million of investments from the Inflation Reduction Act for low or zero-emission aviation technology. We look closely at the future of Advanced Air Mobility, regulatory challenges, the “cautious” insurance industry, 'Innovate 28', an inter-agency working group, and why you should engage communities in the planning process. Tune in now!
Below is a transcribed and paraphrased Q&A from the conversation.
Nick Perloff-Giles: We just saw the Paris Olympics wrap up, and there’s already chatter about Karen Bass’ promise of a ‘car-free’ Olympics in 2028 – which would use eVTOLs to potentially fill that gap. What needs to happen, very broadly at least, for Los Angeles to implement a network of vertiports for the 2028 Olympics?
Marc Nichols: It certainly throws down the gauntlet for folks out in LA, which I'm sure you will be more than capable of living up to. Overall, I think (Paris) was a fantastic showcase of what a global event can achieve. Speaking of which, German eVTOL manufacturer Volocopter had plans to offer passenger flights at the Paris Olympics this year, but unfortunately, couldn't secure the certification in time. And its government partners received a lot of scrutiny, which highlights just how challenging it is to integrate advanced air mobility into something as massive as the Olympics.
So looking ahead to 2028, Los Angeles is hosting the Olympics and part of it includes having a network of vertical ports providing passenger services. And I think this is going to be an incredible opportunity to introduce flying taxis to the public, to show how they can transform travel in major cities, and give us a glimpse of that Jetson future where air travel is not just for long distances, but for urban mobility as well.
But to get there, we're going to have a lot of work to do in the next few years. And first and foremost, we have to have aircrafts that can be certified and built. The public has to also have some trust in the safety of these aircraft. And we have to continue to make sure that they can fly around safely. This means ensuring that they're going to meet some rigorous safety standards, which the Administrator has already noted that we're going to have, we require of all aircraft that provide any sort of passenger service, and they're going to be at the same standard of safety. Then we need to establish the regulatory framework that will govern how these types of aircraft will operate.
“Our regulatory and policy teams are hard at work at this already, and by the end of the year, we plan to have a comprehensive set of regulations that include operating and pilot training requirements for eVTOLs.”
Additionally, I think we'll need some clearer guidance on how to safely design and build the vertiports themselves, where these aircraft will be taking off and landing. This guidance is also in development and I think we expect to have that out probably sometime in the early part of Q1 of next year. Look - we recognize that there's sort of an enormity to this task if we're going to make this happen by 2028. So it's not just the FAA that's involved: we have an inter-agency working group known as Innovate 28 that's responsible for doing a lot of the coordination across government with various stakeholders to try and integrate AAM into the national airspace system. One of their key goals is to ensure that AAM is successfully integrated and operational by the time the LA Olympics rolls around in 2028.
Nick Perloff-Giles: Yeah, I think it's such a complex moving target. In some ways, it seems like AAM's development, or at least the moment we’re in regulatorily, is not entirely distinct from the emergence of other kinds of mobility technologies that we've had in the last 10, 15 years, right? If you look at Uber and Lyft and the proliferation of ride-hailing in the 2010s or micromobility also in the later half of the 2010s, I think we've seen over and over again a kind of mobility technology arrive and a question mark as to, not just how it's going to be regulated, but also who's going to be doing the regulation. And obviously those questions have been answered in kind of different ways. Uber’s generally regulated, at the state level, though somewhat at the local level in New York and Chicago. Micromobility - so scooters, things like that – are generally regulated at the local level. Obviously aviation is kind of boundaryless, so how do you envision the FAA's pre-emption here?
Marc Nichols: Aviation travel, as you know, is regulated by the government a bit differently than Uber. Back in the day, it became clear that air travel would cross multiple state lines, as you rightly pointed out in your lead up to your question. And to avoid this sort of fragmented system, Congress decided that a single unified regulatory framework was necessary. Imagine if every state had its own rules, you would have a very different experience flying from DC to LA if each state along the way had its own set of regulations. And so the aviation regulations that we have in place now and those that we continue to develop are supposed to apply and do apply uniformly across the country. So that means the same federal rules that apply to air travel in New York apply in California. This is because aviation safety, airspace usage, airport certification, pilot standards, they're all under the FAA's jurisdiction. And our mandate preempts state law in these areas.
Now, I will say that there have been some instances where states have tried to step into the aviation regulatory space, which is understandable because this is an important issue for all Americans and every community. But federal law is clear that the FAA has the final say when it comes to aviation. Every American by law has the right to traverse the national airspace system and to do so efficiently and effectively. And it is up to the FAA in concert across the government with Congress and sometimes with states and communities to kind of understand how we do that as clearly as we possibly can. So while there are certainly some parallels to the way other new technologies have been regulated, the FAA's role as the sole regulator of aviation ensures that we don't end up with a patchwork of rules for AAM across the country. And that's what we're going to try to insist on.
Nick Perloff-Giles: That makes sense. The last thing that both an AAM operator would want, but probably a consumer would also want, is a kind of patchwork of regulations that vary city to city. On the other hand, this technology is often flying in an airspace that's a little bit lower and potentially has more consequences for noise pollution and visual pollution and things like that. While there obviously is a wide range of areas that are preempted by FAA regulation, can you talk a little bit about how you and the agency sees itself kind of integrating the concerns and needs of states and municipalities?
Marc Nichols: It's something that comes up quite a lot. Now, while the FAA has authority over areas like aviation safety or airspace efficiency, states and local governments also have a significant role, particularly in areas like zoning or land use planning or environmental impacts - as long as their laws don't conflict with the FAA. And these can be critical aspects, especially when we're talking about integrating the use of new technologies like AAM. So for instance, another example, if a vertiport is being built in a city, the state or local municipality would typically have zoning authority due to their control over land use.
However, the FAA would still be deeply involved, particularly in evaluating how that vertiport’s location, size, flight path would impact the airspace and existing flight routes, because we don't want to have eVTOLs obviously, in the flight path of the large commercial aircraft, right? So we will also have to issue guidance on safely designing and building heliports, vertiports through advisory circulars.
Nick Perloff-Giles: You talked a little bit about safety, and I think obviously that is probably most people's central concern, right? People are already a little bit apprehensive about getting into Waymo or a Cruise or other self-driving cars, let alone getting into something that is going to launch into the air and transport you without a pilot. I think for a lot of people, it still feels a little, I'll say… dicey. What is the legal framework for safety?
Marc Nichols: You know, I came across an interesting statistic the other day, I think it was on LinkedIn, apparently about 80 % of the world's population has some level of fear of flying known as aerophobia. And it really highlights how important it is to build consumer trust and aviation safety, not just for the FAA, but for all aircraft manufacturers and operators. When it comes to autonomous aircraft, the approach is no different and it can't be any different.
These aircrafts will have to meet or even exceed the rigorous certification safety standards that we will apply to all aviation. And we're seeing that, we're starting to see, I think, a significant wave of new aviation technologies like, just to point one out, Skyryse out in California, which is working on automating controls in helicopters to make them safer and easier to operate. Similarly, you get companies like Wisk who are developing fully autonomous aircraft with plans to certify them by 2028, just in time for the Olympics. So the FAA is developing the requirements for these autonomous aircraft to ensure they are just as safe as piloted ones. But even with a solid legal framework in place, gaining public acceptance is going to have to be key. People need to feel confident that these aircraft are safe.
And the best way that the FAA can do this, is to assure the public that they are indeed safe, that any autonomous aircraft, like all other aircraft, go through the most stringent safety checks and meets the highest standards.
“This process is about more than just meeting some regulatory requirements, it's about earning and maintaining the public's trust in a new era of aviation.“
It used to be back in the day, Title 49 United States Code (49 USC), which governs commercial aviation, that we had some language in that law that said that the FAA's responsibility was to promote commercial aviation as well as look at safety issues. And a lot of people thought, wow, that seems like you may have two masters then. And so Congress rightly got rid of that language in 49 USC and said, no, no, we want you to focus on safety, not on promotion. I've often said, when I speak around the country, that there is nothing the FAA can do that would be more supportive of the industry and these new technologies than to make consumers actually want to use it. And the only way we're going to do that is to make it as safe as we can make it. And if we're doing that, we are promoting a lot of usage.
Nick Perloff-Giles: Lastly, I want to talk a little bit, you know, we've had many conversations on this podcast about the consequences of the Infrastructure Act and all the different investments that are being made. Obviously, in the world of mobility, there hasn't been anything nearly as transformative as this in probably a decade or more. And something that the IRA impacts in aviation is upgrades to the NAS (National Airspace System). So for those at home, that's the common network of U.S. airspace and air navigation facilities and equipment and services and airports, landing areas, charts, information, all of that infrastructure, both digital and physical, that helps us run an effective, safe and efficient air travel system. So I know that that's been a focus of renovation and investment by the Biden-Harris administration. What are the conversations looking like? What does the coordination look like with both the White House and with other agencies to make sure that the systems that govern our skies, both for AAM, but also conventional air travel, are as modern as possible and as safe as possible?
Marc Nichols: Modernizing NAS involves a broad range of upgrades. We're talking about everything from air traffic control systems to communications, navigation capabilities, all of which need to be enhanced to handle increased traffic and new aircraft types, including eVTOLs and drones.
And again, I come back to sort of where we started, it ties into the FAA's Innovate 28 initiative, which is focused on determining what new systems or upgrades are needed to support AAM operations. And we have a number of teams who are evaluating whether we'll need entirely new systems like UTM or unmanned aircraft system traffic management, or if we can adapt existing ATC radar and communication systems. Likely for the 2028 timeframe, we'll be looking at a combination of both. But of course, upgrading our technology requires significant funding.
As I said, we've been working with the White House and other federal agencies to secure the necessary resources. We have substantial legislative support to ensure that the NAS stays at the forefront of global aviation technology and safety. We really want to thank our friends up on Capitol Hill who have done a significant amount of deep dive, both from an authorizer standpoint as well as an appropriator standpoint and making sure that the two sides are talking to each other so that they understand what the FAA's needs are in this regard so that we continue as a whole government to make flying safe. We're also expecting that stakeholders such as airlines, airports, and technology providers will need to update their systems to keep pace with industry growth as well. And so we've been having those conversations.”
Get the latest insights on advanced aerial mobility at our upcoming 8th edition of CoMotion LA on Nov. 13-14, and the OMF Summit on Nov. 12 - exploring multimodal, decarbonized mobility and the latest advancements in mobility-focused data and digital tools like the Mobility Data Specification and Curb Data Specification.
Get your pass to the most important new mobility gathering of the year. Register now and save 50% off! Hurry, the offer expires on Sep 9.
Partner with us
Our events CoMotion LA, CoMotion MIAMI, and the Monaco Hydrogen Forum represent a unique opportunity to build global awareness in the industry. Build influence, elevate your brand, and connect with ground-breaking companies and public sector leaders.
“It's really exciting to be at this year's CoMotion, with the best, most creative, and innovative minds together thinking about solutions on how we advance transportation.” - Laura Rubio Cornejo, General Manager, LADOT
Email us if you are interested in learning more.